In this episode of the Ayahuasca Podcast, host Sam Believ (founder of Lawayra) sits down with Tom Camposano, the creator behind the globally recognized YouTube channel Your Mate Tom. Tom is an Australian filmmaker who has spent over a decade documenting the intersection of psychedelics, psychology, and grounded spirituality for a community of millions.
Tom shares his raw evolution from a rebellious teenager battling addiction to a prominent voice in the psychedelic movement, offering a masterclass on how to navigate the “dark side” of the ego and the “light side” of spiritual awakening.
Key Discussion Points
- 02:15 – Tom’s first mushroom trip and the sudden realization that “time doesn’t exist.”
- 05:40 – The call to Peru: How a rock-bottom moment in Thailand led to his first life-changing Ayahuasca journey.
- 09:50 – Comparing the “Grandmother” (Ayahuasca) to the “Grandfather” (San Pedro/Huachuma): Feminine chaos vs. masculine grounding.
- 14:20 – Sam’s experiment of mixing mushrooms into an Ayahuasca ceremony and how the “plant family” interacts.
- 18:45 – The “Sandal” of the Mother: What happens when Ayahuasca punishes you for coming back without doing your integration homework.
- 22:30 – Surviving an “11/10” bad trip: A harrowing story of a psychotic break and the collective suffering of humanity.
- 27:10 – The “Slippery Slope” of Cannabis: Tom’s 20-year struggle with weed addiction and the intensity of modern high-THC withdrawals.
- 33:15 – Why modern cannabis (30-40% THC) acts more like “cocaine from cocoa leaves” than the gentle plant of the past.
- 38:50 – Grounded Spirituality: Learning to stop taking the shamanic path so seriously and allowing space for joy and laughter.
The Spectrum of Teachers
Tom and Sam discuss how different plant medicines serve different functions in a person’s life:
- Ayahuasca: Often described as a “spiritual surgeon.” It is tough, purging, and can be terrifyingly honest about your shadows.
- San Pedro (Huachuma): A heart-opening, 10–12 hour “mountain hike” for the soul. It provides the endurance to process things in a grounded way.
- Mushrooms: The “Jolly Teacher.” While deep at high doses, they often provide a more playful and organic connection to the earth.
On Cannabis and “The Fog”
A major takeaway from the episode is the impact of heavy cannabis use on the psychedelic experience. Tom explains that for many, weed creates a “creative feeling without the execution,” and Sam notes that frequent smokers often have a much harder time “breaking through” in an Ayahuasca ceremony because of the mental fog it leaves behind.
Follow Tom Camposano (Your Mate Tom):
- YouTube: Your Mate Tom
- Instagram: @yourmatetom
Experience Ayahuasca in Colombia: If you are looking for a safe, authentic, and grounded environment to explore these medicines, visit: ayahuascaincolombia.com
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a 5-star review!
Transcript
Tom Camposano: So I started smoking when I was, like, 12.
Sam Believ: Weed?
Tom Camposano: Yeah. And cigarettes. Damn. One week from each other. Yeah. I was just like, “What’s the baddest kid I can find? Okay, let me be friends with him.” And then he’s
Sam Believ: smoking- Lucky you didn’t find a heroin kid.
Tom Camposano: God. And weed today is not what it used to be. We talk about ayahuasca and mushrooms has been around for thousands of years.
Yeah, weed as well, but what we have today is very different to what we had even- Yeah … 30 years ago, 30, 40% THC we- we’re not talking about the same thing anymore. I’ve fallen into that trap of relying on, let’s say, ayahuasca to- … fix my life and stuff, and ayahuasca’s punished me for that- for kind of coming back too soon, “Dude, I already told you what to do.” Like- yeah … “What are you, what the fuck are you doing here?” Psychedelics, at least with ayahuasca, was the first time that, oh, like I was able to really see myself in a different way that allowed me to-
Express and, look at my past sufferings as like, “Oh, no, this is for a reason.”
Sam Believ: You’re listening to ayahuasca podcast dot com.
Hi, guys, and welcome to Ayahuasca Podcast. As always, with you the host, Sam Believe, and today I’m having a conversation with Tom Composano, also known as Your Mate Tom. Tom is an Australian filmmaker and YouTuber who’s turned his personal journey with psychedelics into a global masterclass on psychology and grounded spirituality.
With over 65 million views and a decade of experience, Tom bridges the gap between ancient ritual and modern mental health. Nice. This episode is sponsored by LaWayra Ayahuasca Retreat. At LaWayra, we combine affordability, accessibility, and authenticity. LaWayra, connect, heal, grow. Guys, I’m looking forward to hosting you.
Tom, welcome to the show.
Tom Camposano: Good way of putting it. I like that.
Sam Believ: Good to be here. What brings you here?
Tom Camposano: You invited me.
Sam Believ: Let’s Yeah, I did invite you. Let’s start with with your story. What brought you to psychedelics?
Tom Camposano: What brought me to psychedelics? It was a, a mushroom trip many years ago.
It was just a… I didn’t know anything about psychedelics. Me and a friend just had it and we’re like, “Yeah, let’s just take…” We just thought it was just any other drug, like trying a new, like ecstasy or- … or weed or something like that. And after I took it- It was like a duality experience. It was, like, very beautiful and amazing, and then it went dark.
And but during that trip, it- something happened where it opened my mind to a new perception. I remember thinking time. I go, “Man, time doesn’t exist.” It gave me a more appreciation with nature, and I just kinda opened my mind, and very early on I had a deep respect for psychedelics. I never took mushrooms and then just started tripping out, like-
Taking it like a drug. It was just… this is something different. I don’t know what this is- … but there’s something else here. Yeah. And it was-
Sam Believ: Yeah. I don’t know much about other drugs, ’cause I’ve never taken any. But I’m like I just can’t imagine taking a psychedelic and not having that feeling.
Yeah. I guess some people do, but it’s like, how do you just, Like, how do you ignore, I guess w- at least with plant medicines, I don’t think it’s really that easy to ignore the spirit or sort of the message or kinda the feeling that it’s a little too real than the just a certain feeling a certain drug gives you.
Tom Camposano: Yeah. But… And I’ve also met people who’ve taken mushrooms, and they just treat it like any other drug. They’ll just take it and go to the pub and-
…
Tom Camposano: Just laugh, and I never understood that either, ’cause to me it was, like, a very kind of intense experience. It just opened the veil, and it was like, no, this is something else,
Sam Believ: psychedelics
Tom Camposano: aren’t to be messed with. I had that lesson for my very first trip,
Sam Believ: so how did you go from trying mushrooms to then starting a YouTube channel largely about psychedelics? And I think it was, like, more than 10 years ago.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, something like that. I had a… It was my first Ayahuasca journey, actually, so being here is kinda like going-
Full circle
full circle, yeah. And I- It was just getting into Eastern mysticism. I remember just having a rock bottom moment going to Thailand and kinda seeing the Buddhist temples, and something in that kinda opened my mind to- … hey, maybe I should dive deeper into this through lucid dreaming, and then that kind of led me to The Joe Rogan Experience and DMT, the spirit molecule, and that of course led me to Ayahuasca, and next minute I was
I booked a flight to Iquitos in Peru, and yeah, had my first life-changing Ayahuasca journey, and that just completely changed everything. So much so that I like, I had to like, “Man, why, how come no one knows about this?” I didn’t know anyone in my life- … who had even, who even knew what it was or who experienced it, and so I felt like it was like a, a duty to talk about these experiences because no one was really making content about this.
Sam Believ: Yeah, 10 years ago it was pretty fringe.
Tom Camposano: Yeah.
Sam Believ: It still is pretty fringe. Some people might have heard the name, but like there’s very few people… statistically apparently less than 1% of people in the US have tried it, and US is like in the top three-
…
Sam Believ: Like in the at least top 10 countries. Brazil is number one, Colombia is number two-
Tom Camposano: Really?
Sam Believ: by percentage of people who try the Ayahuasca. But it’s like Brazil is close to 1%. Colombia is close to 0.7 and US is less than a half percent.
Tom Camposano: Wow.
Sam Believ: That actually tried ayahuasca, but maybe more people have heard about it. But when you went to, when you were in Asia and you saw Buddhist temples I know you have some videos about taking mushrooms from elephant poop, and obviously there-
there’s elephants in Asia and do you reckon they were inspired somehow? Is there any connection? Or tell us about any mushrooms from elephant poop. I’ve never tried those.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, I’ve been to Thailand maybe more than 10 times, and I only did the mushroom poo the last time I went. So not…
That first time when I went to the temples, I wasn’t- … yeah, I wasn’t taking any mushrooms in Thailand. But is there any connection, do you think, from psychedelic mushrooms and Buddhism?
Sam Believ: You reckon they were tripping a little bit or? I don’t
Tom Camposano: know. I asked. Every time I ask, I don’t see any connection. Maybe it’s more fringe or I’ve got to go deeper.
But yeah, the Buddhist people aren’t into it. It’s like an, a Western thing that they brought over to Thailand, and that’s when they started- … to become more aware of psychedelics. But yeah.
Sam Believ: Or
Tom Camposano: maybe- I wouldn’t be surprised, but I’m just say- just from now, it’s just the older generation they’re not really into that, that stuff.
But I wouldn’t be surprised.
Sam Believ: Maybe they forgot along the way.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, exactly. Maybe they were It was connected, and then a few generations passed, and then it got forgotten and… But yeah, basically we have no idea. Yeah.
Sam Believ: So obviously you’re a psychonaut and you’ve done many different psychedelics and many different videos about them.
And I think you’re very popular about making trip experience, like, visual style videos about it. So just talk to us about obviously ayahuasca, mushrooms, any favorites? Any, what are the main differences you notice between different psychedelics?
Tom Camposano: I find ayahuasca and mushrooms, at least high-dose mushrooms, is very similar to me. Ayahuasca is just a little bit more tough- … it’s more, more nauseous in the purging side of things. But I feel like the difference between ayahuasca and let’s say San Pedro or peyote-
…
Tom Camposano: Very different. It’s kinda like the yin and yang.
The o- ones are more kind of ma- masculine, grounded.
You can t- I can have San Pedro and go for a 10-hour hike in the mountains, whereas in ayahuasca I can barely get up to go to the bathroom, so there’s a different, yeah, a different energy there. Ayahuasca’s kinda more, more feminine, more kind of chaotic, more like dsh, visual,
san Pedro’s more like-
Sam Believ: What’s,
Tom Camposano: Have you had it before? Yeah.
Sam Believ: Yeah. I’ve tried San Pedro, I’ve tried peyote, I’ve tried mushrooms.
Tom Camposano: What do you think the main differences are?
Sam Believ: I’ve never tried any synthetic psychedelics or drugs.
My approach is, so at least for now because I will probably the first synthetic drug I’ll try is probably MDMA-
Tom Camposano: Yeah
Sam Believ: but specifically from point of view of for trauma, for couples therapy.
I’m looking into finding a way to do it.
Tom Camposano: Okay.
Sam Believ: But as of now, my approach was, like, if it’s ancient, it has 1,000 plus years, then I can have it, it’s safe because it means people took it many generations-
Tom Camposano: Exactly
Sam Believ: and they’re still around.
Tom Camposano: Yeah.
Sam Believ: But everything else, like novel, you don’t know you’ll be fine, but then your grandchildren, they born with I don’t know, tusks. But yeah, so S- San Pedro in my experience is very mild. It’s a great psychedelic for integration.
Let’s say you’ve you’re doing ayahuasca, and then you’re working hard, and then it’s a great psychedelic to do right before a break-
Because it just grounds you and relaxes you. I find mushrooms to be more jolly, a little more laugh-y and positive than ayahuasca, but it could be similar energy. They do feel very related. Obviously, they’re tryptamines-
Tom Camposano: Yeah …
Sam Believ: tryptamine based. But it’s a secret, but I’ve taken, couple times I’ve taken mushrooms in an ayahuasca ceremony with permission of mashalom.
He was like, “Yeah, no, it’s fine. They’re similar enough, like they’re family, ayahuasca’s the grandmother, and they are grandchildren.”
Tom Camposano: Yeah, exactly.
Sam Believ: And if you take a- if you take mushrooms in an ayahuasca ceremony and you’re the only person- You it feels very similar to Ayahuasca except for obviously purging.
So I find Ayahuasca like more, more complete on the body and more pur- more purgative, and I find that if I do mushrooms just by themselves, it’s like stuff comes up, and then it settles down again. So I miss the purging part. Like- Interesting … it kinda, it feels nice to release. An analogy I use, like if you have a glass and you have a sediment, you shake it up and it floats up, and then purging is kinda like scooping it out.
And if you don’t purge, it kinda goes down. Of course, there’s some purging with mushrooms, like yawning and… But I’m a big fan of mushrooms as well. I tried microdosing as well. And Peyote is like San Pedro but a little stronger. And obviously the tradition is very intense. You have to sit all night, and it’s pretty uncomfortable.
I prefer my psychedelic experiences to be comfortable. That’s why when, with nice mattresses and make sure you can relax. I don’t, I’m not a believer in this ascetic oh, you have to suffer. No it’s pretty difficult by just the way it is. Yeah, exactly. You don’t need to make it any more difficult.
And then I tried the Wilca, which is like a DMT snuff that they blow in your nose during San Pedro ceremony. Very interesting experience. What’s it called? Wilca? Wilca. Yeah.
Tom Camposano: From Colombia?
Sam Believ: Yeah. It’s in Colombia. It’s in Peru.
Tom Camposano: Huh.
Sam Believ: There’s also Yopo, which is similar to Wilca.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, I know that one.
Sam Believ: Yeah. I’ve never tried it, What’s the difference
Tom Camposano: between Yopo and Wilca? Is it-
Sam Believ: They’re basically very similar trees, and they have seeds, and they’re very similar but just a different name.
And one is done during a, by itself or during an Ayahuasca ceremony that it is done. I don’t really know, but it was pretty interesting.
And I’ve tried… What else have I tried? That’s about it. Nothing else comes to mind. But yeah, I, obviously Ayahuasca is number one for me ’cause it’s just so diverse.
I’ve never had a similar same Ayahuasca experience, and it seems to always like … I’ve been, I went to ceremony. So are you interviewing me or am I interviewing you?
But it’s just a conversation.
Tom Camposano: Exactly.
Sam Believ: I went to a ceremony on Tuesday. I was dealing with intense fear.
Tom Camposano: Yeah.
Sam Believ: I, it was triggered by something that’s happening, but it was not really that real. It was triggering some fear back from my childhood, that feeling, and I was like, I was in a bad place. And I was in it for a few days.
I was, I couldn’t shake it off, and I would do EFT tapping and breathing and everything, and I’m just … It was, it’s a strong feeling. I went into the ceremony, and it went even stronger. I was feeling it 100x, but I feel like I processed it and moved on and, but next day I’m like I’m just grounded, and the things that cause my fear, they’re still there, but I…
the perspective has changed. It’s oh my fucking God w- why doesn’t everyone just do this? Like why can’t everyone, whenever they’re like, they’re f- they’re struggling just go through it? Like I, I just went through a breakup, which is interesting because we’re kinda still together in a weird way.
Hard to explain, but- But I went through a breakup, like legit breakup. We got divorced and everything. And it was terrifying. And I went from doing one ceremony a month to drinking four ceremonies a month, and it took me through that process. And within four months I’ve detached. We had a very co-dependent and mashed relationship, and now it’s just like we’re s- we’re still together, but in a totally different way.
So it’s like I would not be able to do it without Ayahuasca. So I’m like, in a way it’s like almost cheating because I have this in my backyard, and I can always just walk my way and get to the ceremony. You have a pretty grounded approach, too, to psychedelic as well. You’re not like other psychonauts where it’s just, you take this, and you trip out and have fun.
You talk about healing and spirituality. So let’s talk about your own healing journey-
…
Sam Believ: And the role psychedelics played in it.
Tom Camposano: It has, yeah, been like a basically a s- therapeutic tool. ‘Cause I, I guess I grew up very just numb, addicted to drugs, and just a bad kid, rebellious kid.
And I feel like I was not in an environment that a, that made me feel safe to really express myself. And, I’ve tried like therapy and different diets and like kinesiology and all these kind of other modalities. Yeah. But I feel like psychedelics, at least with Ayahuasca, was the first time that, oh, like I was able to like really see myself in a different way that allowed me to-
Express and, look at my past sufferings as oh, no, this is for a reason. It’s like molding you to who you are. And, I feel like psychedelics he- helped me realize like all these cliche things. Like it’s all the stuff that you know. You have this profound trip and you’d be like ah, yeah, family’s really important” And it’s so obvious- but sometimes you kinda need that direct experience to-
Sam Believ: Self-love …
Tom Camposano: yeah, self- it’s like-
Sam Believ: God is within you …
Tom Camposano: yeah, exactly. It’s all this shit that like religion has said. Love is
Sam Believ: all there is.
Tom Camposano: Yeah. Everything is energy or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So it’s kinda helped me in that way, and also in the kind of a darker way, like seeing my, the, the dark side of myself and reality.
And I’ve had psychedelic trips, like kind of PTSD trips that kind of messed me up for a while.
But then in the long run, it was like, ah, that kind of needed to happen. And it doesn’t need to for everybody, but maybe I’m just stubborn and I kinda need that, slap in the face sometimes.
Even Ayahuasca, it’s kinda like that, like a Latin mother, it can be very sweet and caring and then if you- Use the chan- … step out of line, “Bad watcha.” Chancla. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, with the sandal, yeah. Exactly.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: And I guess over time I’ve- Kind of relied on them less. I’ve learned to let go of like expectations like- ’cause I’ve fallen into that trap of relying on, let’s say, Ayahuasca to- … fix my life and stuff, and Ayahuasca’s punished me for that- … for coming back too soon, “Dude, I already told you what to do.” Like- yeah … “What are you, what the fuck are you doing here?”
It’s like, “Okay, you want the dark shit? I’ll give you some fucking dark shit.”
And yeah, that’s why it’s different. That’s why I talking about the differences between San Pedro and Peyote, that’s been more on the light side. It helped me, ’cause I… There was a time where I was taking psychedelics too seriously.
Like it- … has to be only for shamanic healing, and then sometimes something like mushrooms or San Pedro help me just oh, just laugh and have fun and, you know- … it’s okay. You don’t have to take it too seriously either
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, it’s ongoing
Sam Believ: journey. It’s interesting. You- we’re very similar in a way.
E- even one of the topics I’ll talk about is ADHD brain. Yeah. I definitely have aspects of that. And maybe because of that, my healing is also similar in a way where I it feels like I need more than others. We’ve had people they come, they do one retreat, and they go back home, and they run a marathon, and write a book, and, you know- start a business. And their life is basically fixed. They just come back a year later just to maintain it.
In my case, it was like I need a lot, and I need, like, all those other tools. I have therapy, and the coaching, and, neurofeedback, and meditation. Like, all kinds of things-
I use. It’s it seems harder to fix my brain specifically. I- I’ve gotten so much better, but it’s … But then, and what you’re saying as well with going too hard with the Ayahuasca, and Ayahuasca being punishing I’ve had exactly the same experience where for a period of time I was just in and in, and just kinda trying to get as much as I could.
And it was like, “I gave you homework. Like, why are you back so soon? Here’s a terrible trip.”
Tom Camposano: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Sam Believ: Yeah, so Ayahuasca is self-governing in a way where you can’t really even abuse it. But,
Tom Camposano: Yeah, it’s almost like she closes the doors on you. Like- Yeah … from that enlightening Goldilocks zone, you know-
Where everything just flows. I- it’s been a while since I’ve had that. But after you have those really terrible trips-
… ‘
Tom Camposano: Cause I used to be disappointed, ’cause sometimes you have a ceremony, it’s like it’s very mild, or you don’t- Yeah … have a connection. And, you can see people who come here for the first time, they get frustrated- yeah
’cause, “Man, I came here for this connection.” And I used to be like that. But after having, when you have the really hard trips- Yeah … it’s like, man, the mild trips, I’ll take it, be
Sam Believ: careful what you wish for.
Tom Camposano: Exactly.
Sam Believ: I’ve had those trips. I know what you’re talking about. You talk about PTSD. I c- I call it psychedelic trauma.
Yeah. I’ve had it myself. And the reason that we’ve designed this experience in such a way where we’re very consciously starting very slow. We wanna bring people to the peak around ceremony three so that they don’t get … especially if you’re a first-timer your mind can get blown so quickly, and then you will have that trauma, and you’ll never touch it again.
What we’re trying to do is here’s how you do it, and then you integrate, and then you create the lifelong relationship with this medicine, and you can keep coming back and healing instead of just being scared once and never touching it again. So but talk to us about your psychedel- your bad trips.
What was the worst one?
Tom Camposano: Oof. I got … In terms of intensity, definitely Ayahuasca- It was the s- second retreat that I went to, and the second ceremony it was, like, pretty bad. I’m talking full psychotic break, losing everything, and just feeling like I was dying. And I felt that I was just gonna be crazy for the rest of my life.
And then it got to the point where I was like, “Man, there’s no way out of here. I’m gonna have to, I need a gun or something.”
And then I started… I was that guy who made a scene of guy just yelling “Get me a gun.” And by the end of it they were… like, had three people pinning me down- ’cause it was too much. It was, like, too much suffering. And part of it was, like, going through the collective suffering of humanity. So I was, like, living through every child soldier having to kill or every rape victim- Yeah … and, like, all of that shit just funneling through my consciousness. Plus I thought that- I thought that at that stage that ayahuasca was like, it was like a trap It was like it gave me all these good experiences, and that ceremony was like- okay, we got you. It was like trying to kill… I felt like ayahuasca was like trying to kill me. And so- … I was like, yeah, I was like full craze yeah, pretty insane. And that trip only last- it lasted about maybe 30 minutes, and then they got the shaman, and then she like energetically sucked the medicine out.
I don’t know how it works.
She gave me a piece of lemon, and then from complete 11 out of 10 wanting to kill myself to- … 100% sober just feeling like, “Oh, shit, that was embarrassing.” I’m sorry, guys. And I’ve never had that experience before. Usually, even when I’m have those bad trips, I’m usually to myself.
I don’t express. So this was like a, I don’t know, a lesson in-
Sam Believ: And given that like you, you had a lot of experience, right? And do you reckon like- A little bit … set and setting, did you feel safe in the space or- I- Oh, it was before you had the experience. Do you reckon if like, do you reckon if you were more prepared or if you were more like if you were more s- if you felt like more comfortable in the space, you would be able to go through it without freaking out?
Or no, it was too much?
Tom Camposano: Ooh, that particular one was too much.
Yeah. There was like noth- there wa- there was no like, “Just breathe.” No, there was no letting go. No breathing. Okay. Yeah. I don’t know, it could’ve been an overdose, could’ve been my ego of trying to-
Sam Believ: Yeah …
Tom Camposano: have a bigger cup and this is very early days. I still don’t know. That’s what I’d like to ask Taita- Yeah … about that actually. That’s my specific question.
Sam Believ: So I have a very strong opinion that I think a lot of people would probably be upset with, but I think that most retreats overdose people.
I think majority of places overdose people, and it’s like it’s a bold claim, but I’m like, yeah, like what if we, what if the, the same approach for indigenous people that are doing it regularly is just not the right approach for Westerners that come to work with us for the first time?
But that’s, Yeah. We’ll talk about that on- I don’t have a definitive answer- yeah … but I have observed a few things, but so you talk about recreational use. Obviously, there’s not much of a recreational use of ayahuasca, right? But, Sure … I personally think that, for example, like a gram of mushrooms on a sunny day in a hammock with a journal and like crying a little bit and laughing a little bit, I found it very therapeutic.
That- Yeah … that’s something I’m, I could do without a shaman and without, a really strong container. Like what do you what have you, what are your observations? What are your opinions on that?
Tom Camposano: It’s changed over time. I think at the beginning, I was more of a purist of “No, you need to do it-
In a shamanic context,” and now, yeah, I- Sometimes it’s nice to have it just to have a nice time, like a one… But taking it easy, I’m the same. I’m very sensitive to- Yeah … psychedelics anyway, I think for one, one gram of mushrooms in nature or riding a bike or something like that or playing music- Yeah
Sam Believ: I’m on a gram of mushrooms right now.
Tom Camposano: Are you? No.
Sam Believ: I’m just kidding.
Tom Camposano: I believed you.
Yeah. Honestly I don’t… It just depends on who you are, I can’t s- speak for everyone. Maybe for some people- Yeah … doing it recreationally can be a slippery slope. I’ve just gone through the opposite spectrum of “No, never do it recreationally”- to “No I’d… Once every once in a while.” I like it. I’ve just gone through so much darkness in my life- … that it’s like it’s fine to just laugh and have a good time- Yeah … and no problem.
Sam Believ: Yeah. Definitely up to a certain dose.
Tom Camposano: Up
Sam Believ: to a certain dose. Speaking of slippery slopes, I know you’ve battled weed addiction a couple times here and there.
Talk to us about that.
Tom Camposano: So I started smoking when I was, like, 12.
Sam Believ: Weed?
Tom Camposano: Yeah. And cigarettes. One week from each other. You were an early
Sam Believ: bloomer.
Tom Camposano: Yeah. I was just like, “What’s the baddest kid I can find? Okay, let me be friends with him.” And then he’s smoking- lucky you
Sam Believ: didn’t find the heroin
Tom Camposano: kid. Oh, dude.
Fuck. I was pretty anti-heroin-
…
Tom Camposano: My whole life though, actually. I was very judgmental to other drugs. I was like, “Weed only.” Good
Sam Believ: for you.
Tom Camposano: Yeah. Good for you. Yeah. I was very judgmental. As soon as someone else was like, “Oh, he does meth and heroin,” oh, what a fucking loser, i’m more compassionate now, but still I’m lucky I had that- ’cause yeah, that could’ve been a dangerous slope. But no, I started early and it was just, the classic first time you get with weed, it’s oh, it makes everything better. It makes music sound better. It makes food taste better. It just makes life better. So then over time, I started to rely on that to just enjoy every aspect of it.
And it got to the point where I couldn’t watch a movie without being high. I couldn’t eat dinner without being high. I couldn’t hang out with friends without being high. And then that got to the point where it got really bad, and then I’d have to quit, and then I would stop. But it would never be a commitment.
It would always be like, oh, just a tolerance break. Everything in moderation, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But then I’d go back, have one joint. Okay, maybe I should… Yeah, like once a month. I can do this once a month. But then immediately just goes- … to every day basically. And then year…
20 years passed of on and off, and I found for me, when I’m not smoking, I’m just… It’s like all the things that I thought weed gave me and I’m just personally speaking ’cause I know it’s a sensitive topic for some people. But for me, everything that I thought weed gave me, creativity, happiness, taking away my stress, all these things that I thought it was helping me with, in reality when I actually zoomed out, it was causing all these things.
Or, sorry, taking away these things, right? It was making me more anxious. It was making me more depressed. It was hindering my, or blurring my creativity.
Sam Believ: Yeah. ‘
Tom Camposano: Cause weed is… For me anyway, it helps… Weed, it’s like- It makes me feel creative without being creative, if that makes sense.
So I’ll have all these creative ideas and music, but when it comes to execution-
Sam Believ: Yeah
I’m
Tom Camposano: not very good. So then when I actually stop, and for the first month it’s actually quite hardcore. The last one I had, the last detox, it was like, I don’t know, it sounded like, like what I hear from heroin detoxes, like the night sweats, existential depression, just completely just feeling horrible. And, But after a month, two months, my brain starts calibrating and I’m just happier overall.
And yeah, just for me, I find that if I just commit to not smoking, it makes it a lot easier. Yeah. It’s like having a packet of Oreo cookies, it’s easy to say, “No, not…” I- easy to say, “No, thank you. I won’t have any,” than to have one single one and not eat the whole packet.
Sam Believ: It’s better not to have a packet of cookies, and then you- It’s-
might not want it.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, exactly. So-
Sam Believ: Yeah. It’s a hell of an addiction. I’ve definitely met a lot of people that been struggling. Not like that it’s like it’s not destroying your life, but it’s just hard to get rid of- Yeah … because it is so-
Tom Camposano: But it can- … so pleasant … it’s just slow. That’s the thing.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: It’s a slow destroying. For me anyway, it was like it wasn’t obvious… it’s not like heroin or meth, but sometimes at least you hit rock bottom quicker, and that’s why it’s- Yeah … easier to get out of it. Whereas with weed, you can smoke for 20, 30, 40 years-
Sam Believ: Yeah …
Tom Camposano: before realizing like, “Ugh, maybe I could do better without it,”
Sam Believ: yeah. What I noticed, and I don’t know if it’s in your experience, but when- whenever I have people that have trouble connecting to the medicine, my first question is “Do you smoke weed?” Generally people that smoke a lot of weed, and they just quit a few days before, they have hard time connecting to Ayahuasca, right?
Some people disagree. I don’t really know how it works, but I’ve definitely noticed a pattern. I don’t know if you … When you smoke or when you don’t smoke, do you notice better connection or lack thereof?
Tom Camposano: What do you mean?
Sam Believ: Breaking through with the medicine faster.
Tom Camposano: Oh, for sure. For sure. I’ve had- the the very first time I did Ayahuasca, I went a month. I quit for, I think, a month, and, yeah, I was able to connect much easier. Whereas when I smoke just days before or I quit just a week before then, yeah- … it’s harder to connect. Just with anything ’cause I feel like it kind of fogs up your focus, yeah. And your short-term memory and, yeah, all sorts of things. And weed today is not what it used to be. We talk about Ayahuasca and mushrooms has been around for thousands of years. Yeah, weed as well, but what we have today is very different to what we had even- Yeah … 30 years ago. Like 30, 40% THC we’re not talking about the same thing anymore.
Sam Believ: It’s like comparing coca leaves with cocaine.
Tom Camposano: Exactly. Exactly. And that’s what…
Sam Believ: Yeah. Yeah.
Tom Camposano: And I think over time it’s starting to come out more, but I’m sure we’re gonna see- The science coming out that it’s like, ugh, maybe it’s… I just interviewed a psychiatrist who deals with people getting off prescription medications, and he said that-
People getting off weed, it’s it’s getting pretty hardcore. Yeah.
Sam Believ: Yeah. Actually- Interesting … I wanna interview someone on that topic, so if you have a recommendation. I wanna specifically interview someone who helps people wean off antidepressants.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, I got a… I just interviewed a guy. What’s his name?
Dr. Josef. He’s an Australian who moved to America, and he’s got one of the biggest clinics helping- Josef … people ta- I th- I think it’s called Tapering Clinic or-
Sam Believ: Is he- … Tapering something … is he kinda a little bit Asian-looking?
Tom Camposano: Yeah, he’s kinda… Yeah,
Sam Believ: Is his name funnily spelled Josef like
Tom Camposano: Yosef?
Yeah, Josef, like J- J-O-S-E-F.
Sam Believ: Yeah, I think I’ve spoken to him, and we were planning to interview and then some… It never happened, so maybe- Yeah … maybe his time has come. Please-
Tom Camposano: Yeah …
Sam Believ: connect us.
Tom Camposano: But we had a whole interview just about the- Yeah … just weed addiction ’cause I wanted to get a psychiatric perspective.
Yeah.
Sam Believ: Cool. So- But
Tom Camposano: yeah- … smoke weed if you want to. I’m not… This isn’t But it’s just I’m just speaking personally.
Sam Believ: Yeah not medical advice.
Tom Camposano: Not
Sam Believ: medical. So-
Tom Camposano: Smoke weed every day.
Sam Believ: I just had the same song came up- … in my mind, exactly the same song.
Tom Camposano: 420.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: I actually changed my f- every time it’s 4:20, I write down 10 creative ideas.
So I’ve reprogrammed my mind.
Yeah. Smart. Anyways, yeah.
Sam Believ: Cool. So- You’re, on your channel it says grounded spirituality.
And on your YouTube channel. So obviously, let’s talk about spirituality, like what’s your version of it? What do you believe in? What do you see?
How do you understand it and role of psychedelics in it?
Tom Camposano: Oof, that’s a big question. What do I mean by grounded spirituality? It’s like I like mysticism and spirituality, but I also like to have my feet on the ground.
You know what I mean? I like the woo-woo stuff, but also it’s gotta be some…
It doesn’t even necessarily have to be grounded in science because sometimes we just don’t understand everything. So
Sam Believ: no spiritual bypassing?
Tom Camposano: No. I’ve gone through it before- … and it really… Yeah, I suffered a lot because of it, so I didn’t wanna fall through that trap again. And- Yeah, just like what do I mean by grounded spirituality?
What do I believe in?
Sam Believ: Yeah, how has your spirituality developed through years and like I know you say even like you kinda like talking about religion, but you say like it’s a sket- sketchy topic, if you wanna touch on that, that’s also fine.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, I-
Sam Believ: Like I’ll share, yeah. I saw Jesus in ceremony a couple times even though I’m like zero religious, and I was like, that was a cool feeling. It was a really nice energy and I’m like, but also seeing like Egyptian gods with crocodile heads- Yeah … and all kinds of weird things,
Tom Camposano: yeah, I feel you. So just to give some context, I grew up Catholic, but then pretty early on I’m like I don’t believe in this shit.
And then I went, I guess atheist, but then that didn’t even last long ’cause I’m like, how could you be certain there’s no God? That’s just as, that’s just as dumb. And then I guess I went agnostic, so I’m just like, ah, I don’t know. And then eventually went through the psychedelics path, typical New Age spirituality.
And I think after I had a tough experience, like after the Ayahuasca trip and Iboga and stuff, I had a crisis. I’m like, huh, clearly whatever philosophy that’s been working me this far, maybe it’s not working as much as I thought, so maybe I’ve gotta go deeper. And that’s when I started kinda going to learning from different religions.
I remember Are you familiar with Hermeticism, like The Kybalion?
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, that one really helps. It’s like- It’s- It’s spirituality- … seven- … but it’s like in a scientific way. It’s like very logical.
Sam Believ: Seven universal laws, all that stuff.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, the seven Hermetic
Sam Believ: laws. There’s a box on below. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve read it.
Tom Camposano: Very… Yeah, that one changed the game for me, and then I started delving back into Christianity ’cause I remember there was a lot… There was a part of me that just, I just hated Christianity, right? It was al- almost like a rebellion against the Father sort of thing. Religious
Sam Believ: trauma.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, religious trauma, exactly.
So I was really against it, and I noticed that people in the New Age spirituality were like, they’ll accept everything Buddhism, Hinduism. Yeah. They’ll accept Kali, who’s fucking wearing human heads. But then you talk about Jesus, and it’s like hey, what are you doing there?” And I was like, “Oh, it’s…”
So there was just something that interested me. Now, I’m a- I’m a natural rebel- Yeah … rebel- rebellious character, so like-
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L-A-W-A-Y-R-A.com. So first you rebelled against the majority, and then you rebelled against the majority, but it was already in a different direction.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, exactly. And then I started di- diving deep into Christianity, not from a “Oh, I’m just gonna become a religious fundamentalist,” but more of like a, let me genuinely…
in a genuine, curious way, let me dive into this and see what I can get from this. And it took me to a very… learning about the Bible and how it’s tied in with Western history. It’s very important. Even the movies we watch, we hate Christianity, but we love The Matrix and Lord of the Rings, which are so freaking Christian, man.
That’s like- Yeah … hardcore Christian symbolism. And so yeah, I started reading the Bible and then getting into Orthodox Christianity. And then- And it helped my life and I, and connecting with my roots. But then I got to the point where I was like, “Nah,” that I, I can’t like accept- Yeah … the whole thing either.
You know what I mean?
Sam Believ: It is really weird. Have you w- have you gotten into a rabbit hole of Gnosticism?
Tom Camposano: I have. I like it.
Sam Believ: I like I like sometimes I like when I’m after Ayahuasca ceremony at home eating my dinner, I like to watch videos of that kind, like ghost breaks through.
But it’s
Tom Camposano: like- You mean like Gospel of Thomas?
Sam Believ: Those are good ones. Like n- not all of it, but the main idea being that- Christians didn’t really get Jesus. They didn’t get him at all, and if you really go to try and understand what he was talking about, then it kinda starts making sense.
And it’s interesting because even before that I… my journey was similar except I started atheist because there was no religion in my culture, and then I got baptized when I was in the kindergarten because, yeah … a, a priest came and said basically scared us, said “If you don’t get baptized, the d- devil’s gonna steal your soul.”
So I convinced my mom to baptize me. But I wasn’t really religious, I just got baptized and that’s it, so I was like- Spiritual insurance. Yeah. I was kinda a- atheist till maybe 16, and then kinda agnostic when I started asking myself those questions “I don’t know what it is, but there’s probably something.”
And eventually through Ayahuasca I’m definitely spiritual. I’m not really religious. The way I see it now, and I I ask myself that question, how can I see different religious iconography, symbology? My last experience was actually heavily, once again, Egyptian hermeticism style, like symbols, like-
Tom Camposano: There’s a term actually- And I w-
Hermetic Christian. Yeah. There’s, that’s a
Sam Believ: term. Oh, he hit the cable. There’s a drone spying on us. Yeah. That’s what happens when you’re famous. But basically I If I’m like stuck kinda trying to under… create, recreate a new worldview from scratch like I know what I kinda don’t believe anymore, but I don’t really know what to believe in, and there’s like different versions, and it is kinda confusing and sorta quantum in the way where two, two different things can be right at the same time.
I haven’t found the answer yet, but I definitely, I used to believe oh, you die and you just rot and you-
…
Sam Believ: You disappear, and now I definitely don’t believe it. No, completely. It’s, it would be hard for me to convince myself now that is the case. So I do definitely believe that- Yeah
we’re mostly souls and we’re here. And just the amount of synchronicities I observe, like without like spiritual bypassing, ’cause I kinda know it and I also… But it’s like the patterns are just irresistibly persistent- as my engineering mind, like I just can’t no longer discount it as a coincidence.
So it’s like there’s definitely something else directly or indirectly affecting… And then once again, yeah, like I’ve had a couple experiences with this sort of Christ consciousness, and it felt lovely. Like it’s all about love and… So yeah, I, Yeah,
Tom Camposano: It’s hard to hate on Jesus, even just as a symbol and even in Hinduism- Yeah
they revere him. In Islam, they revere Jesus.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: The Jews, not so much. But the Christians- Yeah … obviously. But yeah, most people don’t really have a problem with Jesus and-
Sam Believ: Yeah …
Tom Camposano: there’s something powerful in the symbolism and, yeah, like I don’t believe oh, Jesus Christ is the, our Lord and Savior, and that’s the, the one and true only God.
I never-
Sam Believ: Neither-
Tom Camposano: I
Sam Believ: was never- Neither he believed it, right? Like-
Tom Camposano: No. Even if you think about the only prayer that he taught his disciples was, “Our Father who art in Heaven.” He didn’t say, “Our Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.”
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: That came afterwards. That’s all Paul. Saint Paul, who never even- Yeah
met him. But anyways, we don’t have to go too deep into that. But yeah.
Sam Believ: It’s a deep rabbit hole, but basically very interesting to explore. And I definitely had also a bit of that not religious trauma because I was never forced into religion, but kinda just re- rejection on like just how kinda illogical and stupid conventional religion is.
And it’s but there definitely is something there. If you’re really looking between the line in all those books, you can kinda like-
Tom Camposano: There is …
Sam Believ: get some meaning out of it.
Tom Camposano: It’s the ritual and the community. That’s something that religion, whether you believe it or not, like that’s something that’s- Yeah
can be very powerful. Whether you… Yeah, you can be, they’re like religious and not spiritual, but even having that, you know- Yeah … every week you go to a place and gather and, you know-
Sam Believ: Yeah …
Tom Camposano: recite these prayers and stuff, like that’s very powerful. Like even if you don’t have the faith, like there’s something there, something…
And that’s something I envy in, like- Yeah … religious people, I try to be that, but I believe in God, and I believe that God is benevolent, whatever, whoever this intelligent creator is. But I don’t know. I’m not into Yeah. I’ve never Cross that fence of this is the one true religion, or this has to be it.
Like-
…
Tom Camposano: Yeah, it’s hard for me. I see the universal patterns in most of them.
Sam Believ: We touched upon a topic of spiritual bypassing a couple times. You have a funny sketch about this. I haven’t watched all of your videos, but I kinda skimmed through them to see the topics you wanna- you like to talk about.
So yeah, like you said, you have your own history of that, and is the sketch based on that? Talk to us about that.
Tom Camposano: Which, which sketch?
Sam Believ: It’s about there’s a guy, and he basically, his apartment is messy, and he just spiritually bypasses everything, and it’s oh, he got-
Tom Camposano: Oh, … an STD, and he’s- The,
Sam Believ: the cartoon,
Tom Camposano: you mean?
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: Yeah. Yeah.
Sam Believ: It’s like-
Tom Camposano: Spiritual Shitshow.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: What’s the-
Sam Believ: Is it based on your life? Did you get herpes?
Tom Camposano: A little… no. I added all that shit. It w- Yeah … it’s like a… It was making fun of that archetype that, yeah- Yeah … I was in, but it’s obviously way, way exaggerated. Yeah.
And just a, a satire on the- … the spiritual path. And it was this, a fun little project to make.
Sam Believ: Yeah. So yeah- Yeah … in, in your case did you also become holier than thou look at me, or not really to that extent?
Tom Camposano: Not consciously, but I’m sure there was some of that leaking out, like that kind of s- spiritual superiority and maybe judging people.
Not in that extreme way, but enough that is not very attractive,
Sam Believ: so how would you- Doing the work … caution people against it or any, any advice based on your experience?
Tom Camposano: Any advice based on my experience? I guess don’t… Like, when you go into these spiritual experiences don’t believe in it just because you experienced it fully. You know what I mean? You gotta have that analysis afterwards, and you gotta be always aware that, yeah, you’ve got your subjective experience and you can tap into truth, but also there’s human nature, and you can’t escape the human condition, and sometimes our emotions get muddled into things, and-
It might make you think or feel a certain way that’s not necessarily true. So you gotta yeah, m- I guess step back from the moment, not just be emotionally attached immediately, that’s why integration is important or, or believing that, you’re God, and that’s all there is when…
I think that’s why The Kybalion helped a lot because it talks about the divine paradox, where it’s like, it says… What does it say? “The all is within the earthworm, but the earthworm is far from being the all.” So it’s like-
Sam Believ: Yeah …
Tom Camposano: it’s within you, but you’re not it, if that makes sense.
Sam Believ: There’s also this phrase you’re not a drop in the ocean.
Yeah. You’re the ocean in a drop.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, exactly. I
Sam Believ: think that’s a different teaching.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, different. Yeah.
Sam Believ: Yeah, I like to tell people specifically with psychedelics is if for example, sometimes Jesus in a ceremony. It doesn’t mean you’re Jesus.
Tom Camposano: Yeah .
Sam Believ: It just means that what does that represent to you?
Maybe you need more love in your life. Maybe, turn the other cheek more often or whatever it represents to you. Kinda to interpret the experience and not try to make it literal. And yeah, as you say, not to attach to the positive outcome. Yeah. It’s oh this god came to me, and it’s my life is…
From now on, it’s all gonna be perfect. So just to kinda-
Tom Camposano: Yeah …
Sam Believ: analyze things and take lessons from them and, as you say, integrate.
Tom Camposano: Especially if it’s just in your head, if you wanna test the spirits and be like, “All right, show us a miracle in real life that I can test and measure” That’s why religions exist, right?
They have- At least they have miracles. Yeah. If you believe it, they at least they, there’s always tests. If you’re gonna be a prophet claiming that you’re talking to the one and only God, then you still need some, some proof,
Sam Believ: here’s some water. Yeah. Turn it into Ayahuasca.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, exactly. Split the Red Sea.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: Or whatever,
Sam Believ: it’s this topic similar, but why do some people take a lot of psychedelics and just never heal?
Tom Camposano: That’s a good question. I was gonna ask you a similar one.
It’s like they get into this this hamster wheel of healing ’cause it… Yeah, it’s… Why do they keep doing it? I don’t know. It’s different for everybody, right? I can’t speak, but I temporarily fell into that trap, and I can only speak for myself. And for me, it was- Relying on it to fix me
And also there’s the paradox of ’cause yeah it’s a medicine, but just because it’s a medicine doesn’t mean it’s good for you all the time, like cough me- cough syrup is a medicine, but I’m not gonna drink it unless I have a, a sore throat-
…
Tom Camposano: Kind of thing. So I think maybe take an over-reliance of using the same tool again and again, and especially not integrating, which is very important. And integrating is it c- it can be different for everybody, but for me it’s journaling, getting a coach finding your purpose in life, focusing on career, being, deepening your bonds and relationship. Like real life shit that you can measure, not just- … feeling spiritual for a couple weeks and then going back to being an asshole.
Sam Believ: Yeah. Even therapy, like I I’m not a big believer in therapy just as is. No. It’s like it’s- That’s why I said coaching … just too slow and too expensive.
I like coaching. But I have a therapist now.
Tom Camposano: Yeah? Good. What, what kind? And,
Sam Believ: Good question. I don’t know. But he’s like he mostly works with like PTSD and abuse- Okay … victims. And I’m not one of them, but he’s just really good.
Tom Camposano: Yeah.
Sam Believ: He came here as a guest. His name is Simon. I interviewed him on a podcast twice.
Nice. He’s from New Zealand actually.
Tom Camposano: Oh, nice.
Sam Believ: And he would integrate, help us with integration with people that when they find out about like childhood trauma and people were just raving about him. And when I started going through my breakup, I was like in a really bad place and I was like, “Simon,” “I need some help.”
And I’ve been working with him and it’s it’s very useful he’s been teaching me about emotions and stuff like that. So I think like combining psychedelic drugs and all those things just makes everything better. It’s both psychedelic experience more efficient and your therapy becomes more efficient.
So I have this analogy that I like to use is like, if a process of healing is like digging a tunnel, ayahuasca is like a dynamite. And you can make fast progress, but the integration is like shovels and brushes and it’s like you, you kinda like explode and then you clean it up.
Then you explode again, you clean it up.
But if you just keep exploding in the same spot, your tunnel will just collapse.
Tom Camposano: Yes.
Sam Believ: Which is kinda like you will g- you know, lose yourself- Of course.
Tom Camposano: It’s like people who’ve done 100 ayahuasca ceremonies, but they don’t work out. That to me is like-
Sam Believ: Yeah …
Tom Camposano: crazy. How can… It’s it’s like a, there’s spiritual bypassing, but then there’s also therapeutic bypassing. There’s physical bypassing. Like you’re just going straight to the mystical enlightenment experience, but you’re not even like going to the- There’s nothing in
Sam Believ: between …
Tom Camposano: you’re not even going to the gym and working out and eating healthy.
Like that’s like-
Sam Believ: Yeah …
Tom Camposano: base, that’s like the bottom of the pyramid,
Sam Believ: that’s why we have a gym.
Tom Camposano: I know, exactly.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: That’s why you need that.
Sam Believ: Will you ask will you ask me a question about it on your podcast so I can tell everyone I beat you in arm wrestling?
Tom Camposano: I bet you too, though, but yeah
Sam Believ: Okay, it’s 50/50.
He’s pretty strong, surprisingly.
Tom Camposano: We’ll do, like we’ll do a rematch.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: The decider.
Sam Believ: Let’s do it.
Tom Camposano: Are you left-handed or right-handed?
Sam Believ: I’m left-handed.
Tom Camposano: Ah, okay.
Sam Believ: Are you right-handed?
Tom Camposano: Yeah.
Sam Believ: No, so I’m- It’s hard
Tom Camposano: to, it’s
Sam Believ: hard to test that … actually, no, I am right-handed, but my left hand is stronger.
Tom Camposano: Huh.
Sam Believ: ‘Cause I used to play accordion when I was a kid.
Tom Camposano: Okay. I think that’s
Sam Believ: why my left hand is stronger. That makes sense, ’cause
Tom Camposano: yeah, you destroyed me in the left hand, but-
Sam Believ: Yeah …
Tom Camposano: okay.
Sam Believ: … I was going to have a nice question after that, and I got de- derailed myself. You, so you also travel a lot in your channel as you go to interesting places.
So what is the most interesting places you went from psychedelic point of view or maybe spiritual point of view? What’s what impressed you the most? Or maybe even feel free to mention a specific video people should watch that is fascinating.
Tom Camposano: Ooh, most psychedelic
You mean psychedelic or you mean a place that has a lot of psychedelics?
Sam Believ: Like a physical place in, on this planet that was very interesting from point of view of
Tom Camposano: psychoactive
Sam Believ: spirituality. I’ll have
Tom Camposano: to say prob- probably India just because it’s And not in term- Like I never did psychedelic experiences there.
I think they just, they smoke a lot of hash I suppose. But just in terms of like a psychedelic experience because it’s so different and it’ll test you in ways that I’ve never been tested in my life. And it’s like a bad trip, during it’s like, fuck it’s overwhelming.
You get tested. You’re in a complete foreign environment. But then you look back and it’s kinda You know, it taught me patience, it taught me to how to deal with people better, and it taught me to appreciate home better. But in terms of psychedelic shamanism Mexico is pretty interesting.
Yeah. Like especially Chiapas or when I did peyote in Real de Catorce. I did a… s- stayed with a shaman and his… He owned the land, and we went peyote hunting, and there was, like, a bull sacrifice. And, you gotta put the candle in the blood, and Day of the Dead, and all that kinda stuff.
And doing an all-nighter just staring at the fire, and then the next day you’d take a horse and go to the mountain. That’s pretty mystical.
Sam Believ: Sounds a little dark there a little bit.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, it was. It was nice, though. It was good.
Sam Believ: Cool.
Tom Camposano: It sounds darker than what it sounds. It was like… It was shocking, but it was actually one of the most nicest experiences I’ve had.
Yeah. After the bull sacrifice.
Sam Believ: Okay.
Tom Camposano: Yeah.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: Looking into the fire. But peyote was very gentle to me.
Sam Believ: Yeah, I’m not much into sacrifice. At least not yet, sure. We talk a little bit about AD- ADHD.
You like… Are you self-diagnosed, or are you diagnosed?
Tom Camposano: I think I got diagnosed…
My mom told me when I was a kid, and they- … prescribed me meds. But I think her hippie gypsy friend is like, ”
Sam Believ: No,
Tom Camposano: throw that in the bin. Don’t give him that shit.”
Sam Believ: Give him weed instead.
Tom Camposano: Yeah. Give him weed,
Sam Believ: yeah.
Tom Camposano: So I’m pretty sure I did get diagnosed as a kid, but also even as an adult now, just looking through all the patterns, it’s just…
It’s… I know it’s dangerous to self-diagnose, but it’s… This one I’m like, man, if I had to bet 1,000 bucks, for sure.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: For sure. I just didn’t… It’d just cost like $1,000 to get diagnosed in Australia, so I’m like, I don’t need to pay that much to know what I am.” Maybe
Sam Believ: you should diagnose yourself here.
Medicine… There’s a lot of medical tourism here. I’m sure they can-
Tom Camposano: Oh,
Sam Believ: yeah. Totally … hook you up. Maybe come next time for longer,
Tom Camposano: Yeah. No, I will. I will. Absolutely. I- Yeah … I already talked to my wife. I’m like, “Yeah, when we come we’ll stay here.”
Sam Believ: Yeah, you can’t for way, way not enough,
Tom Camposano: I know.
I know. I know …
Sam Believ: it’s too much to explore here. But I was never diagnosed, but based on the way I behaved in the childhood and even now, I’m not… I wouldn’t say I’m ADHD, but I definitely have the tendency. And my brain is definitely… How do you call it? Brain Those types of brains, they call them
Tom Camposano: retarded?
Sam Believ: No, there’s like there’s like different people with different kinds of brains or different kinds of-
Tom Camposano: Like-
…
Tom Camposano: You’re talking
Sam Believ: about like neuro- Neurodivergent … divergent. Yeah … yeah, basically. So like I definitely have some kinda neurodivergency.
Tom Camposano: Yeah. Retarded.
Sam Believ: No, I’m joking. I’m sorry.
It’s okay.
Tom Camposano: Yeah. Yeah.
But if you look at ADHD, it’s y- you can be-
Sam Believ: But it- it’s not entirely negative or, and it’s not entirely positive, so- No,
Tom Camposano: it’s like-
Sam Believ: But like in your own experience, ADHD and psychedelics specifically, did you notice anything like different about you comparing to others?
Or does it help, for example, I see your teeth are green, so you’re taking Mamba. That helps a lot with ADHD. I actually had one guy, he stayed with us for a few months just kinda renting a cabin, and he got off ADHD medication and replaced it entirely with Mamba, but he was taking a jar. A jar would last him like three days.
Tom Camposano: That’s a lot.
Sam Believ: Yeah. I, yeah. But it like it allowed him to work and like focus and-
Tom Camposano: Yeah, that, I think that’s why I used to smoke weed a lot, ’cause I was- … like self-medicating for that. But ADHD, it’s interesting, ’cause you… I don’t look at it as a negative thing, but it can be very negative if you’re in the wrong environment.
And I don’t know. Do you play video games, like role-playing games and stuff? If you choose a certain class, there’s strengths and weaknesses. Yeah. And if you choose I don’t know, if you’re like a, a wizard, but you’re trying to play the game as a barbarian, then you’re gonna have a bad time, you gotta- Yeah … There’s different strategies, and that’s why you gotta know what your brain type is and then use that to your advantage. ‘Cause ADHD, it’s all about oh, they… People can’t focus, and that’s not true. It’s just you can’t focus on things you don’t give a shit about. It’s very difficult for the ADHD brain to focus and put interest in something that you just don’t care about, but when you care about something, it’s like hyper-focus, obsession, so-
Sam Believ: They say it kinda comes from tribal societies, where we used to be hunters and-
Tom Camposano: Yeah. That’s why AD- ADHD brains are more sensitive to stimulation and sound, and you have high bursts of energy, where you go on the hunt, and then-
You rest, ’cause hunters, most of their time… It’s like, look at a cat. They’re, like, lying down most of the time, but then when they go, they’re…
the u- the agility and the strength and the speed is high level,
Sam Believ: do you look down on people that don’t have ADHD- … and just call them gatherers?
Tom Camposano: Gatherers.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: Farmers, that’s another.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: I don’t look… sometimes I’m jealous because this world is built for farmers, yeah. Just the nine to five, just go to the same… ‘Cause it’s like the farmer, you just plant. You do the same thing every day.
And… But you need those people. That’s why it’s different classes, whereas for me I can’t…
It’s not stimulating enough.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: For me, I need to challenge myself and more… We’re like more risk-takers,
Sam Believ: yeah.
Tom Camposano: And that’s why it’s like YouTube is a perfect kind of,
Sam Believ: Yeah …
Tom Camposano: place for me to focus my energy on, because I get to do all sorts of things, from graphic design to video editing to filming to speaking to writing.
So it’s like a lot of different skills in one that-
Sam Believ: We- Yeah … we’re lucky that farming is not the only job available- Yeah … like it was a couple hundred years ago. Speaking of YouTube, you your channel a couple times got almost deleted. Like- Yeah … what do you think about censorship in the space?
Tom Camposano: I think… Yeah, there was a mo- there was a while where it was dangerous. I think now- I just understand the game now. So I feel confident making videos about psychedelics, but just framing it in a certain way that it doesn’t get deleted. And I think psychedelics are getting more popular now.
More people, more respected people and authors and podcasters are talking about this stuff. But the, it is very low on the I think it’s RPM, revenue per mil, so it’s like-
…
Tom Camposano: Adverti- Yeah, you get paid much less than like a gaming niche or travel or- Yeah … finance. There’s different hierarchies, and psychedelics is definitely, it’s gotta be near the bottom, for sure.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Tom Camposano: It w- In terms of pure AdSense,
Sam Believ: revenue. Which is unfair because obviously-
Tom Camposano: Yeah, I
Sam Believ: know … psychedelics could technically help people, and gaming, is, can only entertain people. Yeah.
Tom Camposano: Yeah. And it’s different even, But I have, I’ve noticed that I’ve had more trouble with weed related videos, even when the video is how to quit weed.
And then YouTube will demonetize that, but then I can smoke 5-MeO-DMT through a crack pipe and completely fine. So
Sam Believ: it’s weird. Maybe the, the algorithms haven’t learned, … to determine that yet. Yeah, we had the Facebook group. When I first started-
Tom Camposano: Yeah …
Sam Believ: we only had the Facebook group. That was our main means of promotion, and they deleted it and said we were selling drugs.
Tom Camposano: Yeah, my Facebook page got deleted. I never… Did you get it back, or just no? Yeah, and they didn’t even try. No, and then
Sam Believ: our Instagram gets l- blocked re- regularly. We lost one of them. One recently was banned, and then we got it back, and now it’s kinda shadow banned constantly. They really don’t like us, and I’m like, “We’re not really doing anything bad.”
It’s totally legal here as well.
Tom Camposano: I know. It’s frustrating. I’ve gone through this so many times. That’s why I’m, like, pivoting to a… still continuing Your Mate Tom, I’ve just recently started a new channel. It’s called Tripping with Tom, but it’s a little about more abroad travel- Cool
exploring different cultures- … weird worlds, like, that kind of stuff. So it still can include psychedelic experiences- … but just kind of- Yeah, wi- … broadening the ne- the net, …
Sam Believ: widen- widening the horizons. Yeah.
Tom Camposano: Yeah. Yeah. So I think that’s a smart, smart-
Sam Believ: Yeah, I think about it sometimes as well.
What if, when, what happens when I interview everyone in the psychedelic space, ’cause it is a pretty small space.
Tom Camposano: Yeah.
Sam Believ: What do I do then? So I guess I’ll need to figure out w- would it be mental health or… ‘Cause my interests are very broad. Tom, thank you so much for coming on and coming here in person and participating with us.
And hopefully soon a video is gonna come out on this channel about his experience at LaWayra and brain mapping and all those- Yeah … kinds of things.
Tom Camposano: So I already talked to Matt, so I’m just waiting for… I gotta wait for the clinician or whatever.
Sam Believ: Nice.
Tom Camposano: Luke, I think his name is.
Sam Believ: Luke,
Tom Camposano: yeah. Yeah, so he’s gonna-
Sam Believ: Yeah, well- I’m
Tom Camposano: waiting for him.
He said a month.
Sam Believ: So I have an interview with Luke maybe six months ago, and he’s m- his teacher actually, the guy who developed the method I have an interview with him. It came out today.
Tom Camposano: Oh, nice.
Sam Believ: Yeah. Cool. So-
Tom Camposano: They make
Sam Believ: a good sandwich … by the time you’re seeing this podcast, it would’ve come out about two months ago.
Tom Camposano: Awesome.
Sam Believ: Yeah, thank you so much for coming and,
Tom Camposano: Thanks for inviting me … yes. I like … Yeah. I really enjoy this. Yeah. It’s been six years since I’ve gone to a Ayahuasca retreat, but I don’t know, something about, maybe it was the timing, y- your energy, and just kinda looking at the retreat.
Sam Believ: Synchronicities, man.
Tom Camposano: Yeah. It just worked out, man.
Sam Believ: I don’t reach out to many YouTubers, and then when I do, they always come. It’s strange.
But maybe I should reach out To more YouTubers. Yeah do you wanna tell people where to find you? Obviously Your Mate Tom on YouTube and-
Tom Camposano: Yeah, Your Mate Tom, and my new YouTube channel, Tripping With Tom.
And
Sam Believ: yeah, that’s it. Cool.
Tom Camposano: Yeah.
Sam Believ: Thank you, guys. You’ve been listening to Ayahuasca Podcast. As always, with you, the host, Sam Belif, and I will see you in the next episode. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you’d like to support us and psychedelic renaissance at large, please follow us and leave us a wherever it is you’re listening.
Share this episode with someone who will benefit from this information. Nothing in this podcast is intended as medical advice, and it is for educational and entertainment purposes only. This episode is sponsored by LaWayra Ayahuasca Retreat. At LaWayra, we combine affordability, accessibility, and authenticity.
LaWayra, connect, heal, grow. Guys, I’m looking forward to hosting you.